clifford schorer winslow homer

I wasn'tI didn't have anything approximating a cultural youth. There was a logic for the family dissolving the enterprise which was hard to overcome with the attraction of a sale. He lived until I was 13 years old. JUDITH RICHARDS: So I'm thinking of 20th century. Some cruder examples of earlier things from Han. And I remember coming around the corner and seeing something so staggeringly, unbelievably great that I couldn't believe it. JUDITH RICHARDS: Whenas we're getting into the '90s, is that when the involvement with painting started? He is considered one of the foremost painters in 19th-century America and a preeminent figure in American art. I liked heavy curtains. So I didn't know himI didn't know him as a young man. Schorer. [Laughs.] Is itis thereis it an issue that you grapple with, or is there a way that you can manage, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Sure, it impacts us all, and it impacts us all in a very fundamental way. And she got tired [00:20:02]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Collection," I think. And, you know, from there I was able to turn more of my attention. JUDITH RICHARDS: So was your contribution focused on that installation and maintaining that object and any other objects you might, CLIFFORD SCHORER: It's very complicated, but basically, JUDITH RICHARDS: Well, you don't need to. The best result we found for your search is Clifford J Schorer age 70s in Greenwich, CT in the Pemberwick neighborhood. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, I know the famous expression about the collection you have and the collection you have in your mind. I mean, you know, we have aboutI'm trying to remember how many photographs there are. What happened?" But I'm not going back to school." And, you know, when the euro was new. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, andbut more than that: the artists that interest me and the types of subjects that engage me, they are broader than, I think, most collectors, because most collectors say, "I want one great Dutch or Flemish picture per year. So I went to the director's office. I mean. So it would have been a matter of, "If you're not available to me, that's fine; I won't do the project." But I think that would bleed money away from my other, more serious interests. They have these kindthey have everything from 19th-century styles to very Modernist styles, and it'sit gives us a chance to say, you know, here's a modern interior, with a beautiful thing. [Affirmative.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, certainly, don't destroy the art if you can avoid it. So I would basicallythat's whymy base of operations was Montreal. To have the picture debuted with this book about how it's a masterpiece; have it not sell. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I don't think I could ever give it up. And then I would see the object resurface with a new price tag on it. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And there's no further I can go. ], I mean, I remember I got it back to Boston, and it was hangingit's hanging in the photos. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. ONE SIZE ONE SIZE 16.0cm10.8cm5.3cm ! . CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, and everything else in Amsterdam. I mean, was there a kind of sense that you have when you look back that there was a certain period of time when you were doing a lot of research and reading? JUDITH RICHARDS: Is this something that youthat the Worcester Art Museum had to deal with, or have they always had good-quality climate control? And I mean, he didn't speakI don't think there were too many words spoken about much. JUDITH RICHARDS: How did that happen? So it was an interesting thing. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And in a way, I felt absolutely noyou know, that was a, you know, the Buddhist gesture of releasing. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And I know, for example, Ordovas Gallery was able to do a Rembrandt and Francis Bacon show, and there I think the motivation was they got the Bacon. So, I mean, signature works: Saint Cecilia by Waterhouse, Rossetti's Proserpine, The Heart of the Rose by Burne-Jones. On either side of her are her younger brothers, Maurice and Arthur. Just one huge vertebrae specimen, yeah. Researchers should note the timecode in this transcript is approximate. And they say, "Well, 15 percent is outrageous! So I've sold off most of my warehouses. So today I actually have two paintings from that same series. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Now, the difference is if the artist is alive, and the dealer is alive, and you've got, you know, sort of some other motivations. Yeah, and, of course, you know, if you think about return on equity, and you're in the business world, you understand that with the inventory turn of a gallery being as slow as it is, buying something and hanging it on the wall is often a very bad business decision. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So they depict the crucifixion scene as a maypole party. And so, those are wonderful. I didn't want sunlight. Have there been important dealers that you've worked with that have influenced. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, Nazi loot. [00:08:00], CLIFFORD SCHORER: So he would've comehe would've come into America then, and didn't speak English becausefrom what I could tell, his English was a second languageand then became an engineer. He and I. JUDITH RICHARDS: The Lewises [Sydney and Frances]. The book isso, Hugh Brigstocke and his new. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. JUDITH RICHARDS: Oh, you were living with your mother? She's always willing to take a phone call from an annoying person like me. And most of our manuals were in Japanese, because the cash register manufacturers in those days were mostly Japanese. [00:40:10]. [Affirmative.] JUDITH RICHARDS: This is on your father's side? So I went through the whole museum. CLIFFORD SCHORER: It's a very different game. He also practised printmaking. Hurricane, Bahamas, 1898 Painting. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Give up all my business interests and retire to sort of a conversational job where I sat in a shop, and I played shopkeeper, and people came in and looked at my furniture and told me how overpriced it was. You've talked a lot about your involvement in museums and education, so obviously you do have a sense that there's a level of responsibility when you acquire these works to share them. And also, you have to catch them at their exact moment in time, because they erode as they emerge, so if you don't find them as soon as they start to emerge, then, you know, you lose them to time. There they prepared the fish for despatch to the fishmarket in . JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: You don't have the 110-foot specimen? [Laughs.]. You know, the really great, truly amazing things that anybody would want in their collection have decoupled from the rest of the market, the rest of the market which was the kind ofall the way from, and I say this disparagingly, decorative works up to sort of upper-middle market works. I mean, if someone told me, every year, I'm going to buy one great Dutch picture, I'd say, Well, that's a fool's philosophy in terms of collecting. [00:31:59]. JUDITH RICHARDS: That would mean three or four years? The painting, valued at 100,000, was then handed over to Sotheby's New York for auction in May 2009.. But I think that I'm not willing to roll that roulette wheel. Just to pick up a little bit from where we left off yesterday, this is still before Agnew's enters the picturein the earlyinaroundso you're collecting Italian Baroque, as you described it yesterday. CLIFFORD SCHORER: For theyou know, luckily, we have the sands of time to wear away the lesser works from the, you know, from the museum-quality question of whether an Old Master belongs in a museum. In A Fishergirl Baiting Lines (1881) a young fishlass is shown baiting . Not at all. JUDITH RICHARDS: This is Judith Olch Richards interviewing Clifford J. Schorer III, on June 6, 2018, at the Archives of American Art offices in New York City. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, if I fall off a bridge in the next few months, everything goes to the various museums. [00:06:00], JUDITH RICHARDS: You've talked about competition a bit; in fact, in a very knowing way. So they put Anthony Crichton-Stuart, who used to be Christie's head of Old Masters, in charge of Noortman Gallery. And she's, you know, "Chiuso, chiuso." Just because there was more material in the market. There was a stegosaurus that came up from the Badlands in South Dakota that I didn't move on fast enough, and then there was a triceratops that I didn't move on fast enough, but I had a second opportunity when the owner passed away. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I did two things at the same time, and you're going to laugh. So I think back then it was much more about a buying strategy, and, you know, I think now I would say, Be very cautious and very slow, because now the market is created to separate you from your money and, JUDITH RICHARDS: And this applies to specifically Italian Baroque or any of the areas you've, CLIFFORD SCHORER: generally speaking, what's happened is the auction market, which used to be a wholesaler's market, has become a mass market, and as such, the marketing techniques employed have become mass-market marketing techniques. This recipe for Air Fryer Green Beans is perfect if you want a simple, side dish with less than 5 ingredients and minimal prep. Like a Boule chandelier. So, you know, it was quite ait was quite a big disparity in age. So I go in there, find thisthere's this little Plexiglas box, and inside this Plexiglas box is the most breathtaking bronze I have ever seen. They have no idea. So, yes. JUDITH RICHARDS: So what were some of the early key purchases, and how did theywhy were they goals then and, JUDITH RICHARDS: how did they appear? So they used to have in their little museumsthey probablyonce, back in the '50s and during communism, they probably had these Thracian pieces, you know, that they found in the ground, and then the National Museum sort of pulled them all into the National Museum. And, you know, we can cover a lot of ground. I packed it up in the overhead. brilliant Tibor! I enjoy exhibitions at the Frick and at the Met. Select this result to view Clifford J Schorer's phone number, address . Yes, in my subjective opinion, I'm doing those things. You know, and I was trying to do my best to go along with that because I thought it was a ticket to yet another city. JUDITH RICHARDS: This is Judith Olch Richards interviewing Cliff Schorer on June 7, 2018, at the Archives of American Art New York City offices. What I would have done was purchase the assets; I would have purchased the library. So the logical leap I made, which in hindsight was a very good one for commercial reasons, was Chinese Imperial. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is this inbased in Londonbased in Boston? Fortunately, I had a business that owned a big warehouse. And I tried for one of them, but it wasyou know, it was because it was terribly underestimated, but of course, the marketplace knew how to make it 700 percent of its high estimate. And Sotheby's purchased the company, and then Robert Noortman died literally, I think, six or nine months later, unexpectedly. You know, it clouds my view of the artwork. JUDITH RICHARDS: And he was keeping up with you. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, I can just give a recent example. I don't know that I ever, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, no, no, other than going there and looking at things. JUDITH RICHARDS: If we can go just separate, not the gallery. But if something great pops up in our little cabal, it immediately travels up to their level. So it was very depressing. We drove my van, actually. [00:50:00], And, you know, Anthony went through the archives and saw this material and knew the artist and apparently, you know, knew people who came to the show and thought it was an amazing show. Matter of fact, for a great deal of time in speaking to all three of them, they didn't know who I was. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Agnew's is a different kind of firm, because it traveled through seven hands in the same family, so you have ayou know, I have an even bigger responsibility to make sure that whomever I hand it off toyou know, that they have the same appreciation for it as an asset and don't need it as a source of income. So it's, to me, those moments. Birth date: 9 August, 1917, Thursday. This growing passion? Funding for this interview was provided by Barbara Fleischman. And so, you know, obviously this is a man with probably a military education in Germany. And her maiden name was Mildred Wolfgang. But I don't think she'sI think she's not an Italian native. And I have it at home to remind myself of what an absolutely abysmal painter I am and to really, you know, bring homeyou know, I always think I can put myI can do anything I put my head to. JUDITH RICHARDS: And you wanted to live in the middle of nowhere? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, the experiences, the moments, and all of that. Retouching, restoration [00:44:00]. So in other words . I meansomething very strangebut nothing, no art. But in those days, you hadyou know, you had little accounting houses in Salem, Massachusetts, running thatyou know, running that enterprise. So for them to have, you know, something that is at that levelI mean, compared to broken pieces of pots, which is what the rest of the museum was, you know, broken fragments of pots and maybe some rings. So, you know, that's why it's useful to have, you know, after you've made the emotional decision to handle something, to have a bit of a business meeting. SoAnna Cunningham; she doesshe's the one who sort ofshe keeps all the sheep herded; so she keeps us focused on what we need to do [laughs], and she manages all of the gallery operations. [00:30:00]. JUDITH RICHARDS: So that really transformed the Worcester Art Museum. You're going to findthere are going to be many more. He had eyelashes; he had glass eyes. So. [00:36:00]. He was a dealer and, you know, and an ennobled Italian, and it was in his collection. So that's a hugeI mean, fiscally, they were on a path to 10 years and the money would be gone, back in the day, because you know, they were spending eight to nine percent plus capital, you know, plus cap ex, and you can't do that, you know; grandma's jewels only last so long. Like the bestyou know, the very important people in the orbit of the greatest, and very, very good quality; I mean the best quality that there is. I lived in Massapequa, Long Island, for probably an extended period; I would say from about age seven until aboutactually, from about age eight until about 13. And it was an area I didn't know, and you know. And we can coverbecause between the three of us going through a catalogue, we will isolate out the nine things worth sharing, and then we share those nine things, and then we comment on them, like attribution comments, back and forth. And they didn't have a real understanding. It was never conceived as sort of being able to carry, you know, a 19th-century or earlier painting. Yeah, pre-that buildingto the Louvre, to, you know. I used to go to TEFAF all the time. Thatyou know, the sophistication of the buyer and the marketplace in Old Masters is not going to be swayed in any way by [laughs], you know, that you had something on view momentarily, you know, in a museum; because you leveraged your ego or your money, or whatever it was, they've got your picture on view. It's a big Spanish altarpiece. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You have to have a much broader and thinner support base. There's a lot of blue hair. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The MFA. And since I'm, you know. This is my third bite at the apple, and I wasn't going to lose it this time. shelved 1,082 times Showing 30 distinct works. And also, I'm obsessed with these pivot moments in time, so the events that lead to unforeseen consequences much later on. [They laugh.]. Now, that's where the museum world and my personal life intersected, because of the Worcester Art Museum. You know, it was important to me that that's the type of person, you know, sink or swim, whetheryou know, I didn't want a shark. Anthony takes charge of all the art questions involved with that, and he will then give me some yeoman's work to go and, you know, "Find this; find that," you know, "Keep your eyes open for this, that, and the other thing. JUDITH RICHARDS: Do you own any van Dycks, or have you? So, you know, I don't think it was in any way, you know, shall we say, a false unity by putting them together. I mean, this year, there might be two and next year there might be none. I wasyou know, I was very much on my own. We just put our heads down into the envelopes, and start looking at them and sorting them out. Or not. But again, my collecting evolved. You want toyou want to sort ofyou know, you want to have a completely catalogued collection, with every example of, you know, canceled, non-cancelled. No, I neverI mean, I alwaysI mean, the problem is I'm a jack-of-all-trades and a master of absolutely nothing. Olive subsequently married John (Jack) Arbuthnot who wrote some of the Beachcomber columns. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you can't complain about having to keep your home dark. It's what leads to bankruptcies in galleries, is buying too much stock and not selling it fast enough. And why not? JUDITH RICHARDS: Wow. And recently, Milwaukeeso I love Tanya Paul; she's the curator at Milwaukee. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And you know, other things happened too. So I would say that's probably the only piece of advice I can have, is that you have to be much more object-focused, learn as much as you can about that object, and try as much as possible to ignore the catalogue entry that shows Chairman Mao by Andy Warhol next to Leonardo da Vinci next to the so-called lot that you're about to buy, and draws these amazing marketing inferences that, you know, you will be like the Medici if you buy this thing. JUDITH RICHARDS: Was that coincidence that you ran into them? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Bless you. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I'm trying to think if I'd been to Europe by that age. This is a Renaissance object. Their corrections and emendations appear below in brackets with initials. And then, you know, you may 10 years later find that Molenaer is worth five, or he's worth 500. [Laughs.]. You know, there are certainly moments in the '60s and '70s when scholarship might have been a little weaker, and they missed something, but in general, right after the war, when everyone else was profiteering, the firm didn't. So. And as I said, I mean, that was ait was a wise decision to buy Chinese. And so, they're walking away from that equation with a very large amount of money, "And your picture is going to be part of a catalogue with 160 pictures in it.". I've been invited to a few other things, but it's really a question of, you knowmy geography is such that I'm not usually in the neighborhood at the right moment. [00:28:03], JUDITH RICHARDS: Was your business background also important to them? [00:04:00]. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, literally, and these are Constable, Claude Lorrain, you know, Millais, you know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: each moment that I hit upon an artist's name that I didn't know, I would go off on another tangent. I mean, there was a moment in each place in my head where I knew what was happening in those places because of history. I think I was 20 or 21. JUDITH RICHARDS: Was that the firstso you said that was the first painting? And, you know, these were major paintings, so it was a prettyit was a bigger risk. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you're collecting Italianroughly Italian Baroque; that's around 1600 to 17how do you define it? JUDITH RICHARDS: You mentioned paleontology. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I'm starting to meet people. I mean, my rooms were very dark. Or just the, CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, the Adoration is atis in London at Agnew's Gallery at the moment, and The Taking of Christ is in Worcester, hanging, JUDITH RICHARDS: Is that a long-term loan? And commercially, it was a triumph because, of course, the Chinese were not in the market yet. Followers. You know, finding things that people just miss. And I found it; it was an ambassadorial gift to the Spanish ambassador, and found the exact painting and everything. JUDITH RICHARDS: So now you've kind of put collecting on the back burner. It's Triceratops Cliffbut this is entre nous. Carrie Coon, actress. So I've always thought of myself as an autodidact. what percentage of baby boomers are millionaires post oak hotel sunday brunch gator patch vs gator pave white sands footprints science. JUDITH RICHARDS: Does that impact Agnew's? JUDITH RICHARDS: to the Imperial porcelain? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, not gone through it; distributed it to the shareholders. I'll happily have lunch tomorrow." [1:00:00], And when a gallery approaches the person, and says, "Look, we're going to catalogue it; we're going to do this; we're going to take it to this city; we're going to show it at this fair; we're going to do these things; we're going to pay the insurance on it; we're going to pay the shipping and all of these things, and, you know, we'd like to earn 15 percent." CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, Anna doesn't do as much of the running around, but Anna is the gallery manager. JUDITH RICHARDS: And the insurance? CLIFFORD SCHORER: I know that Colnaghi has managed to navigate those waters for the last 60-odd years since the originalyou knowwell, even more than 60 for thesince the original founders were out of the picture. They got the Bacon as the plum to borrow the Rembrandt.
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